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V220 v V250

Grand Tourismo

Grand Tourismo

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Hi SBD - I can't comment on the V250 but the V220 has plenty of power so I can imagine the V250 is equally capable.
 

Samebutdifferent

Active Member
My wife had a 'C' class estate about 10yrs ago, I seem to remember it was a c220 so possibly the same 2143cc engine.

It had enough power and was good to drive if a little gruff when you pushed it.

With the shackles being released a little we're packing up our van and heading 'up country' tomorrow to have a gander at the MP I've mentioned, it's a V250 AMG. The one @JulesAMG has pique my interest but it has cream trim, that's a V220 AMG hence my question.
 
Last edited:
JulesAMG

JulesAMG

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My wife had a 'C' class estate about 10yrs ago, I seem to remember it was a c220 so possibly the same 2143cc engine.

It had enough power and was good to drive if a little gruff when you pushed it.

With the shackles being released a little we're packing up our van and heading 'up country' tomorrow to have a gander at the MP I've mentioned, it's a V250 AMG. The one @JulesAMG has pique my interest but it has cream trim, that's a V220 AMG hence my question.
The V220 AMG packs plenty of power and is more economical, insurance and tax friendlier than the 300d version but they are both 2 litre engines but the 220 is detuned and much more lighter than the older version in previous models and more economical and with far less emissions - at the end of the day this is designed to cruise all day which is does well and when we used it usually travelling down to wooly West Wales to our cottage.

Acceleration is good enough and I even used the economy button from time to time so not in a hurry. When in the sports mode it is tight with good power to weight ratio - we previously had a California VW Ocean with the same sized 2 litre engine and the one big thing I notice with the MP is the smooth gear box and effortless acceleration with virtually no noise whilst I found the VW a bit on the loud side

Let me know if you would like a virtual show around and I can talk it through - there are a few potential buyers lined up but happy to do this if interested
 

GeorgeG

Active Member
I'd be interested in the views of anyone who has experience driving both variants.
I have the V220. Perfectly adequate to the extent I usually leave it in eco mode unless it’s very hilly. It is after all a camper van and not a sports car. If you want to convince yourself how good it is, try comparing it with a manual Fiat Ducato based van - I had one for a couple of years!

I also had an automatic California a number of years ago - with the more powerful 5 cylinder ’commercial’ engine. It was a lot noisier than the MP and struggled to get 30 mpg.
 

Samebutdifferent

Active Member
Hi @GeorgeG Thanks for that, I've read some of your previous posts and feel I'm Mirroring you.

I had a lovely LWB T5 conversion 150BHP DSG for a number of years, we changed to a Columbus 600D that we've had for 3yrs.
for a number of reasons we want to go back to a smaller van. VW Califonia/Ocean fail to impress me and a 250D AMG came my way. Total lack of support has been my main concern and my lack of knowledge, hence the interest in your post asking a list of questions.

A V220D came up on this forum and that prompted my question. Lock down relaxed and I eventually saw the V250 and had a drive in it. I went to see the V220 but was declined a drive. Some like you say the V220 is fine, others say it's like driving a van after the V250.

Ideally I'd convert a panel van again and spec it exactly how I want but there 's a wait of 1yr.

I think I'd be happy with either, I've gone for the V250, for other reasons than comments on how the two engines compare, and will be picking it up soon.

Here's some photos of my T5 conversion:
Infinity 31.jpgInfinity 31a.jpgInfinity31. 5.jpgInfinity31.7.jpgInfinity31c.jpgIfinity31.12.jpgInfinity31.jpg
 

GeorgeG

Active Member
Hi @GeorgeG Thanks for that, I've read some of your previous posts and feel I'm Mirroring you.

I had a lovely LWB T5 conversion 150BHP DSG for a number of years, we changed to a Columbus 600D that we've had for 3yrs.
for a number of reasons we want to go back to a smaller van. VW Califonia/Ocean fail to impress me and a 250D AMG came my way. Total lack of support has been my main concern and my lack of knowledge, hence the interest in your post asking a list of questions.

A V220D came up on this forum and that prompted my question. Lock down relaxed and I eventually saw the V250 and had a drive in it. I went to see the V220 but was declined a drive. Some like you say the V220 is fine, others say it's like driving a van after the V250.

Ideally I'd convert a panel van again and spec it exactly how I want but there 's a wait of 1yr.

I think I'd be happy with either, I've gone for the V250, for other reasons than comments on how the two engines compare, and will be picking it up soon.

Here's some photos of my T5 conversion:
View attachment 1438View attachment 1439View attachment 1440View attachment 1441View attachment 1442View attachment 1443View attachment 1444
What a great conversion! Very impressed.

It‘s interesting that you seem to have been on the same journey, ‘van wise. Our ‘journey‘ has been slightly more complicated in that we’ve gone: 3 small tents (when kids were at home); 1 massive tent; California; medium tent; Eriba caravan; Westfalia Columbus 601D; Marco Polo.

We’ve finally got the tent thing out of our system now! Although the Columbus was a great van (not without its faults, build wise though, which involved a trip to the Westfalia factory in Germany for repairs) the Fiat Ducato base became an issue for me. We were prepared to compromise on the accommodation in the end for the sake of a better drive - particularly as (before lockdown) we would travel through France and Spain in the Summer months when outdoor living was the norm.

The unfortunate thing is that I could do with the Columbus now because of health issues. Earlier this year I had a massive operation which means I really need a toilet/washroom when we go away. It’s strange the hand that fate deals!

We’re now considering buying another small caravan, but using the MP, which has a towbar, as a tow car (our other car is a Prius plugin that averages over 200 mpg but can’t tow a caravan!) This may turn out to be the perfect ‘rig’ which gives us the choice of a day van for visits to the beach and picnics and the full rig with large bed (as well as 2 smaller beds), washroom and 2 kitchens.
 

Samebutdifferent

Active Member
What a great conversion! Very impressed.

It‘s interesting that you seem to have been on the same journey, ‘van wise. Our ‘journey‘ has been slightly more complicated in that we’ve gone: 3 small tents (when kids were at home); 1 massive tent; California; medium tent; Eriba caravan; Westfalia Columbus 601D; Marco Polo.

We’ve finally got the tent thing out of our system now! Although the Columbus was a great van (not without its faults, build wise though, which involved a trip to the Westfalia factory in Germany for repairs) the Fiat Ducato base became an issue for me. We were prepared to compromise on the accommodation in the end for the sake of a better drive - particularly as (before lockdown) we would travel through France and Spain in the Summer months when outdoor living was the norm.

The unfortunate thing is that I could do with the Columbus now because of health issues. Earlier this year I had a massive operation which means I really need a toilet/washroom when we go away. It’s strange the hand that fate deals!

We’re now considering buying another small caravan, but using the MP, which has a towbar, as a tow car (our other car is a Prius plugin that averages over 200 mpg but can’t tow a caravan!) This may turn out to be the perfect ‘rig’ which gives us the choice of a day van for visits to the beach and picnics and the full rig with large bed (as well as 2 smaller beds), washroom and 2 kitchens.

Did the tents and caravan as a kid in the 60s, small and medium tents later, we never had children so it didn't progress from there until the VW. My brothers don't get it, holiday and sleep in a metal box!!! I guess camping got in my blood but not theirs

I had real problems with Westfalia regarding quality issue with the Fiat, mind you their QC leaves a lot to be desired also. Got no support whatsoever from Westfalia, even spoke in person to the the sales manager at the NEC. I was left to sort things myself and eventually came to a compromise with Fiat but swore I'd never have another Westfalia. The dealer was the only positive, they were 100% supportive and couldn't have done more for us. I do see this as a Mercedes and not a Westfalia though:)

Very sorry to hear you have health issues, I guess you just have to play the hand you're dealt.

We thought about a small caravan, there are some stylish ones about, very different from the old Sprite Alpine my parents had.
Also been impressed with the Opus trailers I've come across, spacious and well equipped, but lack a proper bathroom.

Just washed the Columbus, hopefully for the last time because it's not really a pleasurable job. As you mentioned driving it, especially round here in North Devon / Cornwall isn't either..
 
Grand Tourismo

Grand Tourismo

Active Member
VIP Member
What a great conversion! Very impressed.

It‘s interesting that you seem to have been on the same journey, ‘van wise. Our ‘journey‘ has been slightly more complicated in that we’ve gone: 3 small tents (when kids were at home); 1 massive tent; California; medium tent; Eriba caravan; Westfalia Columbus 601D; Marco Polo.

We’ve finally got the tent thing out of our system now! Although the Columbus was a great van (not without its faults, build wise though, which involved a trip to the Westfalia factory in Germany for repairs) the Fiat Ducato base became an issue for me. We were prepared to compromise on the accommodation in the end for the sake of a better drive - particularly as (before lockdown) we would travel through France and Spain in the Summer months when outdoor living was the norm.

The unfortunate thing is that I could do with the Columbus now because of health issues. Earlier this year I had a massive operation which means I really need a toilet/washroom when we go away. It’s strange the hand that fate deals!

We’re now considering buying another small caravan, but using the MP, which has a towbar, as a tow car (our other car is a Prius plugin that averages over 200 mpg but can’t tow a caravan!) This may turn out to be the perfect ‘rig’ which gives us the choice of a day van for visits to the beach and picnics and the full rig with large bed (as well as 2 smaller beds), washroom and 2 kitchens.
Hi George - just reading through your (and SBD's) posts with interest and I had the same thought...that an MP and a lightweight fixed bed caravan would make a most excellent rig.
In the services recently I spotted a new Vauxhall van in black with a twin axle caravan behind and a touring family all loaded up for a couple of weeks in the SW...it looked the perfect set-up. I caught up with them on the m'way some miles later and he was easily holding a waggle free 65mph.
Make use of the van facilities whilst towing/travelling and for day trips out whilst away and the comfort of a fixed bed caravan for evenings away, seems perfect.
I also thought that if one wanted to return to a particular area month-on-month or year-on-year, you could store the caravan in your chosen destination area and collect it on the way to your holiday, save towing it all the way home each time etc.
 
Grand Tourismo

Grand Tourismo

Active Member
VIP Member
Hi @GeorgeG Thanks for that, I've read some of your previous posts and feel I'm Mirroring you.

I had a lovely LWB T5 conversion 150BHP DSG for a number of years, we changed to a Columbus 600D that we've had for 3yrs.
for a number of reasons we want to go back to a smaller van. VW Califonia/Ocean fail to impress me and a 250D AMG came my way. Total lack of support has been my main concern and my lack of knowledge, hence the interest in your post asking a list of questions.

A V220D came up on this forum and that prompted my question. Lock down relaxed and I eventually saw the V250 and had a drive in it. I went to see the V220 but was declined a drive. Some like you say the V220 is fine, others say it's like driving a van after the V250.

Ideally I'd convert a panel van again and spec it exactly how I want but there 's a wait of 1yr.

I think I'd be happy with either, I've gone for the V250, for other reasons than comments on how the two engines compare, and will be picking it up soon.

Here's some photos of my T5 conversion:
View attachment 1438View attachment 1439View attachment 1440View attachment 1441View attachment 1442View attachment 1443View attachment 1444
Hey SBD, glad to hear you got your V250, was that the AMG you were hoping to see after lockdown?
Great times ahead!
 

GeorgeG

Active Member
Hi @GeorgeG Thanks for that, I've read some of your previous posts and feel I'm Mirroring you.

I had a lovely LWB T5 conversion 150BHP DSG for a number of years, we changed to a Columbus 600D that we've had for 3yrs.
for a number of reasons we want to go back to a smaller van. VW Califonia/Ocean fail to impress me and a 250D AMG came my way. Total lack of support has been my main concern and my lack of knowledge, hence the interest in your post asking a list of questions.

A V220D came up on this forum and that prompted my question. Lock down relaxed and I eventually saw the V250 and had a drive in it. I went to see the V220 but was declined a drive. Some like you say the V220 is fine, others say it's like driving a van after the V250.

Ideally I'd convert a panel van again and spec it exactly how I want but there 's a wait of 1yr.

I think I'd be happy with either, I've gone for the V250, for other reasons than comments on how the two engines compare, and will be picking it up soon.

Here's some photos of my T5 conversion:
View attachment 1438View attachment 1439View attachment 1440View attachment 1441View attachment 1442View attachment 1443View attachment 1444
Hi GT,

Just noticed after a closer look at the photos of your T5 conversion that it seems to be a Three Bridge conversion. Coincidentally, a friend of mine in our village commissioned a similar conversion a couple of years ago. He’s a little eccentric and went for a very bold colour scheme. It appears to be very well built.

He was reluctant to admit how much it cost and I only found out how eye-wateringly expensive it was after he’d had too much to drink one night. Interestingly, he uses it occasionally to tow a caravan when they holiday with their grown up family.

I‘ve just informed my wife we going to keep the MP and buy a caravan! I’ll let you know how I get on.
 

GeorgeG

Active Member
Hi GT,

Just noticed after a closer look at the photos of your T5 conversion that it seems to be a Three Bridge conversion. Coincidentally, a friend of mine in our village commissioned a similar conversion a couple of years ago. He’s a little eccentric and went for a very bold colour scheme. It appears to be very well built.

He was reluctant to admit how much it cost and I only found out how eye-wateringly expensive it was after he’d had too much to drink one night. Interestingly, he uses it occasionally to tow a caravan when they holiday with their grown up family.

I‘ve just informed my wife we going to keep the MP and buy a caravan! I’ll let you know how I get on.
Apologies, post meant to be in reply to Samebutdifferent, not Grand Tourismo.
 

Samebutdifferent

Active Member
@Grand Tourismo yes it is that one. It turned out to be better spec'd than I thought, only the heater to be fitted. I can get that done sometime later before it gets cold again. Won't be long now, looking forward to it. Will post some photos when I get it, be just the same as all the others though:)

The guys at three bridge did my conversion in 2012 @GeorgeG there was just the three of them then, there's a whole team now. The basic job is not that expensive, but all the additions, some you don't immediately see add to the cost.

The VW California of the time (not much has changed) I had mine converted didn't come close. When you consider you have complete control of every aspect of the build they're a bargain. I could have sold mine three times over and lost very little in the 6yrs I owned it. Still miss it and would commission another but for the wait.

I bought an ex rental LWB T5 1yr old couple of thousand on the clock for 20k and they turned this builders van into what you see above;

Panel Van.jpg
 

GeorgeG

Active Member
@Grand Tourismo yes it is that one. It turned out to be better spec'd than I thought, only the heater to be fitted. I can get that done sometime later before it gets cold again. Won't be long now, looking forward to it. Will post some photos when I get it, be just the same as all the others though:)

The guys at three bridge did my conversion in 2012 @GeorgeG there was just the three of them then, there's a whole team now. The basic job is not that expensive, but all the additions, some you don't immediately see add to the cost.

The VW California of the time (not much has changed) I had mine converted didn't come close. When you consider you have complete control of every aspect of the build they're a bargain. I could have sold mine three times over and lost very little in the 6yrs I owned it. Still miss it and would commission another but for the wait.

I bought an ex rental LWB T5 1yr old couple of thousand on the clock for 20k and they turned this builders van into what you see above;

View attachment 1447
Very impressive. I can see it being a bargain because of the saving on the base vehicle. My friend bought a brand new top of the range T6 as the base vehicle, hence the cost.

What did you think of the Columbus and why the change? Awful Fiat Ducato?
 

Samebutdifferent

Active Member
Long story. Both retiring, planed on selling house in West Berks where we had lived 30+yrs, down size to a smaller place easy to maintain, cheap to run, well insulated so could safely leave over winter while we traveled around Spain and Portugal.

Columbus seemed to fit, 2 x batteries, solar, fixed bed plus bathroom. T5 was either living room or bedroom so make up the bed every night plus no bathroom, ok for me but but not my wife. 2-3 nights wilding and we needed to find a site.

House move to Devon great, heat pump and solar means £600 total bill for year, cheaper everything from car, dog, contents etc insurance, and can safely leave for extended periods. Water bill a shock due to keeping beaches clean for tourist but thats the only downside.

The Columbus had loads of plus points. Hot water, blown air and underfloor heating, fixed bed but somehow we didn't enjoy ourselves. The T5 with the DSG was pleasurable to drive and not at all fatiguing. 7hrs to northern Germany with just fuel stops was fine. We never fell in love with the Columbus like the T5 and the Ducato is poor like you say.

Covid 19 and brexit came along and made us re-evaluate our plans. The Ducato is not as usable as it could be here in Devon and has sat next to the house for the best part of a year, and we're not sure when we will feel safe to travel around Europe.

Is it the right decision? Who knows but hey ho we do know what to expect, I think. At least it'll be so much more useable to explore round here and a pleasure to drive.
 
Grand Tourismo

Grand Tourismo

Active Member
VIP Member
Long story. Both retiring, planed on selling house in West Berks where we had lived 30+yrs, down size to a smaller place easy to maintain, cheap to run, well insulated so could safely leave over winter while we traveled around Spain and Portugal.

Columbus seemed to fit, 2 x batteries, solar, fixed bed plus bathroom. T5 was either living room or bedroom so make up the bed every night plus no bathroom, ok for me but but not my wife. 2-3 nights wilding and we needed to find a site.

House move to Devon great, heat pump and solar means £600 total bill for year, cheaper everything from car, dog, contents etc insurance, and can safely leave for extended periods. Water bill a shock due to keeping beaches clean for tourist but thats the only downside.

The Columbus had loads of plus points. Hot water, blown air and underfloor heating, fixed bed but somehow we didn't enjoy ourselves. The T5 with the DSG was pleasurable to drive and not at all fatiguing. 7hrs to northern Germany with just fuel stops was fine. We never fell in love with the Columbus like the T5 and the Ducato is poor like you say.

Covid 19 and brexit came along and made us re-evaluate our plans. The Ducato is not as usable as it could be here in Devon and has sat next to the house for the best part of a year, and we're not sure when we will feel safe to travel around Europe.

Is it the right decision? Who knows but hey ho we do know what to expect, I think. At least it'll be so much more useable to explore round here and a pleasure to drive.
SBD, What did you make of the move to Devon?, I'd be interested to hear how you have settled in to a more touristic area of the country? Also did you make the move "blind" to a town/village you didn't know or did you have some history in the area...always been a "back of the mind" dream to up-sticks and start a new downsize chapter in the SW.
 
B

Blackrat

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VIP Member
Hi George - just reading through your (and SBD's) posts with interest and I had the same thought...that an MP and a lightweight fixed bed caravan would make a most excellent rig.
In the services recently I spotted a new Vauxhall van in black with a twin axle caravan behind and a touring family all loaded up for a couple of weeks in the SW...it looked the perfect set-up. I caught up with them on the m'way some miles later and he was easily holding a waggle free 65mph.
Make use of the van facilities whilst towing/travelling and for day trips out whilst away and the comfort of a fixed bed caravan for evenings away, seems perfect.
I also thought that if one wanted to return to a particular area month-on-month or year-on-year, you could store the caravan in your chosen destination area and collect it on the way to your holiday, save towing it all the way home each time etc.
We use our MP in exactly the way you suggest!
It’s main function was to give us self contained travel between home and our apartment in Spain, once restrictions are lifted.
It also doubles as a tow car for our caravan. We got to use it for the first time having spent all week in the Lake District.
I can report that it is an excellent tow car. In 30 years of towing its the most stable vehicle I’ve had.
I was a bit concerned that the 220 might be underpowered but it’s not. It romped up Shap on the M6 with 1400 kg of caravan in tow and didn’t drop below 55 mph. Most of the journey I had the cruise set at 63 mph and it was flawless.
Once on site I think we have the perfect combination. The MP and all the facilities for days out has been great.
Then the comfort of the caravan with its fixed bed, bathroom with separate shower and proper cooking facilities.
All in all we are very pleased.
 
Grand Tourismo

Grand Tourismo

Active Member
VIP Member
We use our MP in exactly the way you suggest!
It’s main function was to give us self contained travel between home and our apartment in Spain, once restrictions are lifted.
It also doubles as a tow car for our caravan. We got to use it for the first time having spent all week in the Lake District.
I can report that it is an excellent tow car. In 30 years of towing its the most stable vehicle I’ve had.
I was a bit concerned that the 220 might be underpowered but it’s not. It romped up Shap on the M6 with 1400 kg of caravan in tow and didn’t drop below 55 mph. Most of the journey I had the cruise set at 63 mph and it was flawless.
Once on site I think we have the perfect combination. The MP and all the facilities for days out has been great.
Then the comfort of the caravan with its fixed bed, bathroom with separate shower and proper cooking facilities.
All in all we are very pleased.
Thank you Blackrat, that is exactly how imagined it could be and you have confirmed it. (and I think you must be a mind reader because I had also considered it would be a perfect EU fast tour vehicle to drive down and over winter in Spain, Portugal, S France or Italy...we have even considered the Balearic Islands ...Madeira and The Canaries is now a push for C19 safe ferry transfer, but maybe one day in a year or two)

I have no doubt that the V220 can manage most hills with a caravan in tow, it seems to have plenty in hand. Can I ask what caravan you are towing? I have been speculatively looking for a rear bathroom f/bed but I want a more modern interior that reflects the MP if possible.
 
B

Blackrat

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VIP Member
Thank you Blackrat, that is exactly how imagined it could be and you have confirmed it. (and I think you must be a mind reader because I had also considered it would be a perfect EU fast tour vehicle to drive down and over winter in Spain, Portugal, S France or Italy...we have even considered the Balearic Islands ...Madeira and The Canaries is now a push for C19 safe ferry transfer, but maybe one day in a year or two)

I have no doubt that the V220 can manage most hills with a caravan in tow, it seems to have plenty in hand. Can I ask what caravan you are towing? I have been speculatively looking for a rear bathroom f/bed but I want a more modern interior that reflects the MP if possible.
Hi,
We have a Sprite Major. It’s the entry level van from Swift but it appealed to us because the interior is more modern rather than the chintzy look of some.
It has a fixed double bed with a full width bathroom across the back. The only downside to this layout is that the bed is against the side wall meaning you have to clamber over your partner for that inevitable nocturnal visit!
An island bed layout negates this but they tend to be a little longer and thus a bit heavier.
One consideration would be your license entitlement if you passed your test after 1997 as any caravan towed by the MP will be over the combined 3500 kg limit meaning you need the B+E entitlement. Not an issue if you passed before 1997 as you have grandfathers rights.
 
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