Software Update - 'Just like a laptop'

[Mat-One-T]

Hi All,

During a recent trip I was travelling on cruise control on the motorway when the speed started varying slightly, then the ABS and traction control lights came on, cruise control disengaged, and a message warned me that some of the safety functions wouldn't work. The satnav also seemed to get very confused, and couldn't tell which direction we were going in. There was no way of clearing the message off the dash information screen. We weren't far from our overnight, so just carried on.

Once we stopped for the night we discovered the side door would open, but was not powered, and the tailgate would not open at all (although the upper door would open). I checked some forums, pulled some fuses, and managed to get something to reset, and unlatched the tailgate (still not powered). The next day we carried on (bank holiday Monday, so no nearby MB dealerships open!), and after about 15 minutes the ABS fault cleared and we could cruise once more. 45 minutes later the ABS light came on as before. When we got home the doors still didn't work, and ABS light was on.

I booked it into the local dealership, and told them I had extended warranty. The said I'd need to pre-authorise an hour of labour in case it wasn't covered, which is fair enough. The phoned me later that day to say they'd fixed the fault with a 'software update', and it was covered by the warranty.

When I picked my MP up I asked if they could give me a bit more information, as it was 3.5 years old, and the extended warranty was due to run out in a few months, and I didn't want a recurring fault. They told me that cars these days are 'just like a laptop' and need software updates. The difference to me is that I don't need to pay when I update Windows, and at £150 per hour labour I'd be pretty unimpressed at needing to do regular updates to fix what are essentially software bugs. My other concern is that there's a control module or sensor about to fail, and they've just increased the fault tolerance on it.

So I guess my question to the forum is: Has anyone had a 'software fault' out of warranty and either had to pay for it, or got it for free?

Thanks, Mat.

 

[Mat-One-T]

Update...

It seems that the 'software update' has not fixed the issue, inconveniently while we're away on holiday in Ireland. Same symptoms, ABS and Traction control lights, no cruise control, inaccurate satnav, and no powered doors (tailgate inoperative). Took it to a local MB dealer and they say it's an ABS sensor fault, so will get it fixed over here, and hopefully claim back on the extended warranty when back in the UK.

The ABS sensor fault ties in pretty well with the loss of traction control, cruise and ABS, but not the powered door and tailgate issue. I'll email MB to see if this is expected behaviour.

Thanks, Mat.

 

[Grand Tourismo]

Just to let you know Mat that I am interested in hearing the outcome of this and have been following your posts

 

[Steve B]

Same here, this forum is good for a search for past issues, so this will be useful to others. Doesn't help that your having to deal with the problem though! Hope its fixed this week for you.

 

[Samebutdifferent]

Perhaps whoever runs this show could introduce some 'stickies'. There seem to be a few threads that need prominence.

Searching is a real pita.

 

[Mat-One-T]

Update 3:

The ABS and ESC lights reset after a short drive, and door function returned to normal. Fortunately we didn't need to travel around (which would risk triggering the fault again), so had several days of normal function.

As of yesterday I have had two (front) ABS sensors replaced by the nearest dealership (Collooney, Ireland), no warning lights showing after a short drive, and both side door and tailgate are fully operational. This came in at 750 euro (100 euro diagnostic, 180 euro per sensor, plus labour), which I have been told by the extended warranty people will be recovered for me by my local dealer when I get back home (watch this space!)..

I asked the dealer why the doors didn't open when the ABS/ESC was in fault, and they didn't know. They said they'd had another vehicle in (not a MP) with the same issue, which was fixed in the same manner. I'm trying to get details from MB UK, but just getting standard responses telling me to contact my local dealer. One theory I have is that the door controller looks to the ABS wheel speed sensors to tell if the car is moving, so if there's no data from the ABS unit the doors won't operate the doors from a safety perspective. Might also explain why the SATNAV also becomes very inaccurate whilst the ABS/ESC lights are on.

I have now practiced opening the tailgate emergency release by removing the plastic cover at the bottom of the inside of the tailgate, and locating the release lever within. This isn't too difficult for us as we've removed the original storage basket under the bed extension, but would be tricky otherwise. Rear seats forwards, bed extension up on ratchet, dangle over and operate the release!! The metal edges of the tailgate door skin are slightly sharp, so care should be taken...

If I find out anything else I'll pass it on..

Mat

 

[Mat-One-T]

Update 4:

I have been informed by Mercedes UK customer support that they are not aware of an issue where the ABS sensor fault prevents the doors from operating correctly, but they would need to see the diagnostic data in order to investigate further. For some reason they are not able to contact the dealership in Ireland where the repair was completed, so cannot get the diagnostic data from them!!

The fault was previously investigated and 'fixed' at my local dealership in Aberdeen, so I have asked MB to contact my local dealership to see if they can provide the information they need.

Thanks, Mat.

 

[Marc o Polo]

Hi, Mat,

Really interesting post, watching from the wings and look forward to your updates.

 

[Tee]

We recently paid for some Mercedes Me subscription items as 3 years old (live traffic, geo and control of doors / heating). £250+ for 3 years via online and said it would take a few hours to push through. When it did, it deleted cameras, maps and gave me electric front seat snd four rear seats controls and other odd stuff.

MB Me couldn’t re-push a correcting update so booked into dealer. They had it 4 days: software update did not work; requested MB Germany support that did not work, so had to replace the Command module. That part was £2,000 apparently. I bought the MB extended warranty so it was either MB cost or warranty (not sure).

dealer workshop was good but had not seen before. Glad I bought warranty which was about £600 or £700 for 2 years from memory and avoided discussion about who should pay.

all very odd though.

 

[Marc o Polo]

Blimey, Tee - what a farce. Does the extended warranty (you paid for) extend to MB putting right their own cock-ups?..

Try asking the group manager to recompense you by giving the chosen Mercedes Me services free for three years and reimburse you the total money you spent (i.e. £250+). This is the very least they could do. After all, you were inconvenienced, not least for the 4 days in dock; and expended your valuable and not insignificant time in dealing with the matter. These cars are sold at a premium: their cost includes MB protecting themselves against customer issues such as this. If it were me I should be telling the group manager how inconvenient and unacceptable this service has been and at the same time advise them what you want by way of recompense for this shoddy customer service experience.

Good luck with this.

 

[Steve B]

We recently paid for some Mercedes Me subscription items as 3 years old (live traffic, geo and control of doors / heating). £250+ for 3 years via online and said it would take a few hours to push through. When it did, it deleted cameras, maps and gave me electric front seat snd four rear seats controls and other odd stuff.

MB Me couldn’t re-push a correcting update so booked into dealer. They had it 4 days: software update did not work; requested MB Germany support that did not work, so had to replace the Command module. That part was £2,000 apparently. I bought the MB extended warranty so it was either MB cost or warranty (not sure).

dealer workshop was good but had not seen before. Glad I bought warranty which was about £600 or £700 for 2 years from memory and avoided discussion about who should pay.

all very odd though.

Thanks for this Tee, a bit worrying - I need to decide on extended warranty shortly and was going to get the Merc Me subscription as I find it useful. Did it update the maps when all was sorted?

 

[Tee]

Hi Steve. Not sure. But I guess so as theCommand module had to have the correct software installed.

Looks like I have recent maps but hard to tell, but not had any obvious problems (like driving on a new road but seeing a field on the display). The maps were fine before the download and not sure if they get updated periodically on the service. I’ve had it serviced and mot’d at the dealer as this keeps the roadside assistance live..

 

[Steve B]

We were on the new bit of the A6 north of Preston a few weeks ago and we were in sat nav fields for quite a while! I do like carplay as the maps are up to date automatically

 

[Grand Tourismo]

Thanks for this Tee, a bit worrying - I need to decide on extended warranty shortly and was going to get the Merc Me subscription as I find it useful. Did it update the maps when all was sorted?

Just jumping in Steve, please keep in mind that the extended warranty only covers the vehicle components, not the habitation side of the MP (although they do not mention this anywhere in my documentation)
I have found it to be good value as my powered door motor has just burnt out and is being replaced under extended warranty for example.

 

[Steve B]

I'm more than likely going to get it, there is so much to go wrong if you think about just the v-class bit of it. All of which will be expensive

 

[Tee]

2 year deal is a bit cheaper per year. There is also no excess on a claim from memory

 

[Grand Tourismo]

2 year deal is a bit cheaper per year. There is also no excess on a claim from memory

I had no excess to claim for my recent door repair, just dropped the car of at MB and collected it. No paperwork as MB did everything.

 

[Mat-One-T]

Update 5:

I've heard back from MBUK customer services, who spoke to my local dealer about this issue. The response:

They (the dealer) are confident in their diagnosis that the ABS Sensor fault would stop the doors form working. As this is a safety feature, the vehicle system will rely on a speed signal which will confirm the vehicle is stationary prior to allowing the door to open.

The Retailer further confirm this is not a known common issue and there is no Recall action issued for this by the Manufacturer.

I am not entirely happy with this. Whilst I understand that the door computer needs to know if the vehicle is moving or not, I don't see why it would still reference the ABS computer for a vehicle speed once the engine has been switched off, and the vehicle is in park. I've responded with concerns that this issue would prevent access to the gas cylinder, as I think it would be very difficult to access the cylinder without opening the tailgate, so I'll see what they say. The workaround might be to leave the car for a while, then go for a short drive to hope the sensor fault clears, which would only work if it was an intermittent fault.

Good news is that I finally received a cheque from my dealer to repay me for the outlay for getting the ABS sensors replaced whilst on holiday outside the UK. Bad news is that they didn't use my first name initial (just my surname) on the cheque, so it was rejected by the bank! Apparently some banks allow cheques written out to Mr Surname, and others need Mr X Surname.. (who knew?!)..

 

[Epigram]

Hi Mat-One-T
Can you post a picture of where the tailgate internal emergency release is. I can’t say I like the idea of being stuck in a vehicle if a sensor packs up.

In modern vehicles with so much reliance on electronic sensors and software interlocks I worry about electromagnetic interference from phones. Several years ago my BMW would occasionally lose all instrumentation indications for a second while driving if a phone call came in and the phone was on the dash.

I knew someone in Vehicle Inspectorate who told me the vehicle Type Approval upper frequency for vehicle EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) at the time was 1 GHz whereas newer phones were working on 1.8 and 2.2 Ghz. They were in the process of changing the specification!

His advice was to switch the phone off in the car but not for the usual driving reasons! Hopefully things have moved on.

Sorry I have digressed from the original thread!

 

[Mat-One-T]

Hi Epigram,

I'll start another thread for the tailgate release, as this may have a wider audience. It was only the tailgate that would not open at all, which was particularly inconvenient as we have two large storage containers beneath the bed extension. The sliding door could be opened (with effort as there was no motor assist), the upper tailgate door would open (access to top of bed extension), and both front doors operated normally. The doors unlocked, so this system does not seem to get a speed signal from the ABS computer. Picture of dash warning message below:

Thanks, Mat.