Hi
I have just taken the plunge and bought a 250 AMG ex demo from Cambridge. Many thanks to all who have produced this remarkable dossier of information which has smoothed out the buying process. Unsurprisingly most MB personnel just do not yet have core never mind fine details within their grasp.
I have run Westfalia campers for 15 years ( a Ford Nugget; a James Cook; a rare 2008 Sven Hedin; and latterly, my outgoing 2007 MP which is now for sale). I have huge enthusiasm for the brand but poor technical skills/grasp.
I was heavily slanted towards a VW. since I have run a 4 motion Caravelle for 4 years as the family bus. It will now go along with the 07 MP to fund the purchase.
I have ultimately gone for the MP and thought it might help if I posted my key factors for any others uncertain about whether to escape the drag and inertia the VW California has. Here is my list:
1. Price: the AMG I have got is fitted with both the water (engine coolant) and air heating which I expect is a Webasto unit. There is a reversing camera, 360, the crazily expensive 'on command' system and , most important, a full factory fitted towing package. I could not get close in the demo market for VW's. A comparable model would have been £3000 more expensive with LED's but I would have to pay for a tow bar on top ( VW quoted £920). Trying to compare apples with apples I could not get lower than a £5000 differential in 2018 demo stock for each manufacturer.
2. The MP , at least in AMG guise, is better to drive. It has a more sophisticated set of adaptive dampers, it stays flatter through corners and it has no more body lean than a VW if you get things wrong. The 190 engine is certainly not as punchy as the VW 204. It feels more like a single than a twin turbo unit. However, it has equal torque and for mountain roads laden with mountain bikes it is smooth and powerful enough. I expected to dislike it because of my bias and enjoyment of a 180 T5 4 motion Caravelle. I am pleased I kept an open mind because , dare I say it, I think you can drive the MP with real play and fun factor. It is noisier then the VW engine but this is a matter of minor degree.
3. Kitchen Cabinets. In my month of searching I saw in VW showrooms too many signs of poor trim in the cabinetry. I witnessed metal strips hanging off the rear wardrobe and delamination of the edge to the sliding doors in showroom models. I saw that, to a degree, this fitted some frank exposes on the web. This punctured any myth of superior build quality in the VW cabinetry. There will always be problems with catches, hinges and sliders on modern camper van cabinets. The Westfalia units in the MP are, to my eye, more robust and more likely to stand the test of time than the VW cabinets. I say this despite the 'boudoir' reputation the black glass cabinetry and polished sink seems to engender. I prefer the three drawer / one cupboard arrangement to the simple twin cupboard of the VW. It is just easier to see what you are getting at and things tend to stay put in drawers when in transit.
4. Rear cabinets. A shelf as standard instead of a wee hanging closet in the VW. Bravo ! For me, ideal would be two sets of shelved cupboards like my existing MP or the Westfalia Kepler 6. No one hangs wet jackets in the robe of a California ( I hope) and no one I know hangs up shirts etc either. It just gets piled up. The MP is, for my outdoor ventures, much more practical by beginning with one or two shelves in the wardrobe.
5. Pop top and bed. Definitely the more comfortable of the two platforms. The roofs are identical in relation to how much weight they will each tolerate and still elevate: 50kgs. This has always been an issue on my 2007 MP pop-top. It is manual. The struts will only withstand 20kg. With light roof bars, , the lightest 9kg roof box AND the weight of the bed platform slung from the roof, there was little weight allowance left over for the wet, nasty mountain biking stuff to go in the box. With 50kgs for each of the MP and the VW there is plenty of latitude to put a carefully selected roof box up there and not have to worry about collapse. It is worth noting, however, that the superb MP bed remains slung from the roof not, as per California, helpfully supported from underneath by its own struts. This does not matter ! It is much lighter than the VW. It does not have a heavy solid board to its underside. It is designed not only for maximum comfort but also to optimise ventilation and preclude condensation. It breathes from its underside because it is not a solid board. The bed in my 2007 MP is identical. This is a superb illustration of Westfalia not fiddling with something which was not broken at all. The 'concertina' of the MP pop top is, in my experience, nigh on infallible. I have had it up and down on probably 60 occasions this year. It collapses and folds in without the potential for sag and entrapment which has historically been something to guard against very carefully on the California.
6. The electric reach bench seat is identical to the one in my 2007 MP. So much so that I can reuse the bespoke MB seat covers it came with. It offers unrivalled rear passenger comfort and versatility. The VW bench makes its bed more easily and has one rake adjustment for passengers which is OK but it is no match for the infinitely adjustable and contoured rear MP seats. This is another example of Westfalia not meddling with something when launching this all new product. The only seat in any camper van to match the MP for passenger comfort is the bench in the 2007 forwards Westfalia James Cook. I will say that making the bed and removing the head rests in the MP is notably fiddlier than the VW but the comfort trade-off I think is worth it.
7. Outdoor table and chairs. This is the one bum feature. It just removes versatility and owner choice in the most important dead space in a van wherein the same is precious. It needs ditching in the next generation or making optional. I doubt that many would select it. Its hugely space inefficient. If you climb, bike or kayak it is an unacceptable confiscation of the space where you would typically sling all your tackle in a van such as this. The framework , even with the bag off and table out, has to remain and is intrusive. I have decided to work with it and turn the negative into a positive. The table and chairs will be going in my lightweight roof box and the underslung sack will now hold pods of climbing and biking gear. Since it is on a sturdy metal ratchet not a hydraulic strut it is actually pretty easy to lift up and see what you need to get with lighter ,softer stuff on the bed extension ie clothes or sleeping bags !
Once again, many thanks to all who have helped tease out the detail in this new generation of MP's and helped me commit. When a dealer tells you that her van does hot water and you can wash up in running hot water, it was invaluable to just refer her to the post and invite her to understand the 50k product being purveyed does not have such a facility.
I have just taken the plunge and bought a 250 AMG ex demo from Cambridge. Many thanks to all who have produced this remarkable dossier of information which has smoothed out the buying process. Unsurprisingly most MB personnel just do not yet have core never mind fine details within their grasp.
I have run Westfalia campers for 15 years ( a Ford Nugget; a James Cook; a rare 2008 Sven Hedin; and latterly, my outgoing 2007 MP which is now for sale). I have huge enthusiasm for the brand but poor technical skills/grasp.
I was heavily slanted towards a VW. since I have run a 4 motion Caravelle for 4 years as the family bus. It will now go along with the 07 MP to fund the purchase.
I have ultimately gone for the MP and thought it might help if I posted my key factors for any others uncertain about whether to escape the drag and inertia the VW California has. Here is my list:
1. Price: the AMG I have got is fitted with both the water (engine coolant) and air heating which I expect is a Webasto unit. There is a reversing camera, 360, the crazily expensive 'on command' system and , most important, a full factory fitted towing package. I could not get close in the demo market for VW's. A comparable model would have been £3000 more expensive with LED's but I would have to pay for a tow bar on top ( VW quoted £920). Trying to compare apples with apples I could not get lower than a £5000 differential in 2018 demo stock for each manufacturer.
2. The MP , at least in AMG guise, is better to drive. It has a more sophisticated set of adaptive dampers, it stays flatter through corners and it has no more body lean than a VW if you get things wrong. The 190 engine is certainly not as punchy as the VW 204. It feels more like a single than a twin turbo unit. However, it has equal torque and for mountain roads laden with mountain bikes it is smooth and powerful enough. I expected to dislike it because of my bias and enjoyment of a 180 T5 4 motion Caravelle. I am pleased I kept an open mind because , dare I say it, I think you can drive the MP with real play and fun factor. It is noisier then the VW engine but this is a matter of minor degree.
3. Kitchen Cabinets. In my month of searching I saw in VW showrooms too many signs of poor trim in the cabinetry. I witnessed metal strips hanging off the rear wardrobe and delamination of the edge to the sliding doors in showroom models. I saw that, to a degree, this fitted some frank exposes on the web. This punctured any myth of superior build quality in the VW cabinetry. There will always be problems with catches, hinges and sliders on modern camper van cabinets. The Westfalia units in the MP are, to my eye, more robust and more likely to stand the test of time than the VW cabinets. I say this despite the 'boudoir' reputation the black glass cabinetry and polished sink seems to engender. I prefer the three drawer / one cupboard arrangement to the simple twin cupboard of the VW. It is just easier to see what you are getting at and things tend to stay put in drawers when in transit.
4. Rear cabinets. A shelf as standard instead of a wee hanging closet in the VW. Bravo ! For me, ideal would be two sets of shelved cupboards like my existing MP or the Westfalia Kepler 6. No one hangs wet jackets in the robe of a California ( I hope) and no one I know hangs up shirts etc either. It just gets piled up. The MP is, for my outdoor ventures, much more practical by beginning with one or two shelves in the wardrobe.
5. Pop top and bed. Definitely the more comfortable of the two platforms. The roofs are identical in relation to how much weight they will each tolerate and still elevate: 50kgs. This has always been an issue on my 2007 MP pop-top. It is manual. The struts will only withstand 20kg. With light roof bars, , the lightest 9kg roof box AND the weight of the bed platform slung from the roof, there was little weight allowance left over for the wet, nasty mountain biking stuff to go in the box. With 50kgs for each of the MP and the VW there is plenty of latitude to put a carefully selected roof box up there and not have to worry about collapse. It is worth noting, however, that the superb MP bed remains slung from the roof not, as per California, helpfully supported from underneath by its own struts. This does not matter ! It is much lighter than the VW. It does not have a heavy solid board to its underside. It is designed not only for maximum comfort but also to optimise ventilation and preclude condensation. It breathes from its underside because it is not a solid board. The bed in my 2007 MP is identical. This is a superb illustration of Westfalia not fiddling with something which was not broken at all. The 'concertina' of the MP pop top is, in my experience, nigh on infallible. I have had it up and down on probably 60 occasions this year. It collapses and folds in without the potential for sag and entrapment which has historically been something to guard against very carefully on the California.
6. The electric reach bench seat is identical to the one in my 2007 MP. So much so that I can reuse the bespoke MB seat covers it came with. It offers unrivalled rear passenger comfort and versatility. The VW bench makes its bed more easily and has one rake adjustment for passengers which is OK but it is no match for the infinitely adjustable and contoured rear MP seats. This is another example of Westfalia not meddling with something when launching this all new product. The only seat in any camper van to match the MP for passenger comfort is the bench in the 2007 forwards Westfalia James Cook. I will say that making the bed and removing the head rests in the MP is notably fiddlier than the VW but the comfort trade-off I think is worth it.
7. Outdoor table and chairs. This is the one bum feature. It just removes versatility and owner choice in the most important dead space in a van wherein the same is precious. It needs ditching in the next generation or making optional. I doubt that many would select it. Its hugely space inefficient. If you climb, bike or kayak it is an unacceptable confiscation of the space where you would typically sling all your tackle in a van such as this. The framework , even with the bag off and table out, has to remain and is intrusive. I have decided to work with it and turn the negative into a positive. The table and chairs will be going in my lightweight roof box and the underslung sack will now hold pods of climbing and biking gear. Since it is on a sturdy metal ratchet not a hydraulic strut it is actually pretty easy to lift up and see what you need to get with lighter ,softer stuff on the bed extension ie clothes or sleeping bags !
Once again, many thanks to all who have helped tease out the detail in this new generation of MP's and helped me commit. When a dealer tells you that her van does hot water and you can wash up in running hot water, it was invaluable to just refer her to the post and invite her to understand the 50k product being purveyed does not have such a facility.
