Converting 2005 MP hydraulic roof to manual

[Edward Sandaker Palm]

So, this has been done on a couple Californias, and I have a manual for that procedure. Surely it should be possible for the MP as well.

Has anyone on here done this?

One of my hydraulic cylinders has started leaking from the piston rod seal, and if it is not possible to repair (I have my doubts), a new one is 1500euros from the dealer. That should cover the price of a conversion "kit" if I'm lucky to find a scrap yard that has a "manual MP". This would give me such piece of mind, as I rent out my van quite a lot, and I am afraid that the right cylinder (or anything else in the hydraulic system) fails during a lease.

 

[Dutchyankee]

Hi Edward,
I have a similar situation but on my left lift cylinder. I received a quote price from MB service. I asked to exchange both.
What was most irritating to me is that the manual doesn’t make any mention nor the MB dealer were not aware of the problem.
I guess since this is a conversion done by another company Westfalia.
When my roof failed to go up I heard it sounded like it was struggling. So rather than damaging the mechanism I lowered it to be sure we could drive home.
The manual describes an access hole (see 4th photo) to manually lower the roof if it failed. I opened the space where the tire pump and jack is located. Using my phone I noticed a Hydraulic fluid reservoir which was empty (see 2nd photo)
I cut an opening (see 1st photo) just below the ashtray and cup holder allowing me access. I added the correct fluid and it works. I raised and lowered it several times and top off the fluid between the two levels.
Since it was leaking I started to search for leaking fluid. The right side was OK but the left side was damp with fluid (3rd photo).
I presumed the cylinder seal was leaking. After cleaning all signs of fluid I tested it 10 times without any leakage.
I also presumed that the cold weather during one of our winter camping may have shrunk the seal.
I now make sure the upper bed is disconnected before raising the roof to reduce the weight thus relieving the pressure. With the access panel I can now refill if required. I keep a liter of fluid and a funnel with 10mm extension hose to allow easier access.
No leaking was seen in and around the pump, reservoir or hydraulic lines so I’m leaving it as is for now.
I hope that this is helpful and wish you luck.
Stephen

 

[Method7]

The horizon has manual roof, i think a decent parts department could dig up the necessary parts you might need to do the manual conversion. I don’t think there is much involved, the system is simple with a couple of gas struts and a couple of locking clips for securing the roof when down. The bulk of the work would be removing all the existing hydrologic gubbins and locking mechanism... not sure how the security works? Any electrical safety systems would need overriding since the horizon has none

 

[Edward Sandaker Palm]

Did the horizon exist in 2004/2005?
Either way, the viano based MP's came standard with manual roof, but you could purchase the automatic roof as an upgrade option. So it shouldn't be difficult to source the parts, it's just that they will be mighty expensive to source new...

I'm going to keep an eye open for a parts car or similar through the summer, with the hope that I can find the parts used for a lot cheaper.

 

[Method7]

That’s a fair point but it’s worth considering since I bet the roof conversion is much the same - was the viano a westfalia conversion? If not then it maybe worth considering other makes/models with the same conversion but I guess all these conversions use many shared parts.

I’m sure you’ll come up with a suitable set of components one way or another - I really cannot see the value in the powered roof lifting or the electric rear seat in the full fat MP.

 

[Edward Sandaker Palm]

That’s a fair point but it’s worth considering since I bet the roof conversion is much the same - was the viano a westfalia conversion? If not then it maybe worth considering other makes/models with the same conversion but I guess all these conversions use many shared parts.

I’m sure you’ll come up with a suitable set of components one way or another - I really cannot see the value in the powered roof lifting or the electric rear seat in the full fat MP.

Totally agree with you on both the roof and the seat. I rent out my van quite a lot from spring to fall, so I am constantly worried something will fail during a lease.

Yes, the Viano MP was also a Westfalia.

 

[RobRam]

Hi Edward,
I have a similar situation but on my left lift cylinder. I received a quote price from MB service. I asked to exchange both.
What was most irritating to me is that the manual doesn’t make any mention nor the MB dealer were not aware of the problem.
I guess since this is a conversion done by another company Westfalia.
When my roof failed to go up I heard it sounded like it was struggling. So rather than damaging the mechanism I lowered it to be sure we could drive home.
The manual describes an access hole (see 4th photo) to manually lower the roof if it failed. I opened the space where the tire pump and jack is located. Using my phone I noticed a Hydraulic fluid reservoir which was empty (see 2nd photo)
I cut an opening (see 1st photo) just below the ashtray and cup holder allowing me access. I added the correct fluid and it works. I raised and lowered it several times and top off the fluid between the two levels.
Since it was leaking I started to search for leaking fluid. The right side was OK but the left side was damp with fluid (3rd photo).
I presumed the cylinder seal was leaking. After cleaning all signs of fluid I tested it 10 times without any leakage.
I also presumed that the cold weather during one of our winter camping may have shrunk the seal.
I now make sure the upper bed is disconnected before raising the roof to reduce the weight thus relieving the pressure. With the access panel I can now refill if required. I keep a liter of fluid and a funnel with 10mm extension hose to allow easier access.
No leaking was seen in and around the pump, reservoir or hydraulic lines so I’m leaving it as is for now.
I hope that this is helpful and wish you luck.
Stephen View attachment 1370View attachment 1369View attachment 1368View attachment 1367

Hi, I have exactly the same issues as you. I have exposed the hydraulics and resevoir and it is below minimum. I am struggling finding the correct oil. Did you by any chance get an ISO number for the oil you used? I see you used VW Hydraulic oil but it is difficult to find anyone who stocks this. (I am based in Gibraltar - and so is my camper)

 

[Edward Sandaker Palm]

Just check for the specification "MB Approval 345.0" or something like that on the bottle, and it should be the correct type. Once I knew that, I found approved fluids from different manufacturers in all auto parts stores near me.

 

[RobRam]

Just check for the specification "MB Approval 345.0" or something like that on the bottle, and it should be the correct type. Once I knew that, I found approved fluids from different manufacturers in all auto parts stores near me.

I found this to me Mercedes 343.0 as the correct oil spec. Thanks
I am now looking for the correct part number or spec for the hydraulic pistons. mine are leaking and I wish to replace. Any further ideas please. Many thanks in anticipation.

 

[Edward Sandaker Palm]

I wish you good luck in finding the hydraulic cylinders... I found the part numbers when I needed them, that was the easy part, but they were not available anywhere. I even spoke to the manufacturers of them, hoping they could help me out. I might find our communication somewhere.

 

[Edward Sandaker Palm]

Here's a thread I made on the California forum, where there's much more activity and technical knowledge. I posted there in the hope that the cylinders eere shared among Californias and Marco Polos. Unfortunately they are not.
Part numbers are there, lots of info, lots of oictures, and my whole communication with Power-Packer, the manufacturer of the hydraulic system for both Marco Polos and Californias.

Does California and Marco polo share hydraulic rams/cylinders?

The left hydraulic cylinder on my Marco Polo has started leaking from the seal where the piston rod exits the "barrel". The cylinder looks strikingly similar to the one used on Californias, and if it is, I would have many more options to choose from when purchasing a new one. If it is not the...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[RobRam]

So, this has been done on a couple Californias, and I have a manual for that procedure. Surely it should be possible for the MP as well.

Has anyone on here done this?

One of my hydraulic cylinders has started leaking from the piston rod seal, and if it is not possible to repair (I have my doubts), a new one is 1500euros from the dealer. That should cover the price of a conversion "kit" if I'm lucky to find a scrap yard that has a "manual MP". This would give me such piece of mind, as I rent out my van quite a lot, and I am afraid that the right cylinder (or anything else in the hydraulic system) fails during a lease.
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View attachment 1324

Hi Edward,
My cylinder still leaks. So frustrating as the roof works really well but leaks through the piston. It is too much to leave so for peace of mind I want to convert mine to manual. Did you manage to find the parts? and if so any info on this would be great. I don't mind buying original parts as my van is in great condition otherwise.
Any assistance greatly appreciated.
Rob

 

[Edward Sandaker Palm]

Hi Edward,
My cylinder still leaks. So frustrating as the roof works really well but leaks through the piston. It is too much to leave so for peace of mind I want to convert mine to manual. Did you manage to find the parts? and if so any info on this would be great. I don't mind buying original parts as my van is in great condition otherwise.
Any assistance greatly appreciated.
Rob

Hi,
That's such a shame,and if I had the same problem I would definitely go through the work of converting mine also.

I did find the "outside" parts, that was easy enough, but I didn't get far enough to find the interior parts also.
It shouldn't be too hard though, original exploded drawings of the complete MP can be found online, I think I have a link to one place, somewhere among my bookmarked webpages

I came to the conclusion that I would probably have to take the parts from a parted MP anyway, as going through a dealer would be crazy expensive. So I didn't go as far as making a complete list of parts.

 

[RobRam]

Hi,
That's such a shame,and if I had the same problem I would definitely go through the work of converting mine also.

I did find the "outside" parts, that was easy enough, but I didn't get far enough to find the interior parts also.
It shouldn't be too hard though, original exploded drawings of the complete MP can be found online, I think I have a link to one place, somewhere among my bookmarked webpages

I came to the conclusion that I would probably have to take the parts from a parted MP anyway, as going through a dealer would be crazy expensive. So I didn't go as far as making a complete list of parts.

Hi again,
I have now found both left and right cylinders/pistons and combined price of 1,200Euros. Delivery I am told is three weeks to UK. Although the cost of converting to manual is similar. Think I'm going with replacing the two rams and as mine is a 2004 hopefully will last till I don't wish to use it further.
All the best, and thanks for help/advice
Rob

 

[RobRam]

Hi again,
I have now found both left and right cylinders/pistons and combined price of 1,200Euros. Delivery I am told is three weeks to UK. Although the cost of converting to manual is similar. Think I'm going with replacing the two rams and as mine is a 2004 hopefully will last till I don't wish to use it further.
All the best, and thanks for help/advice
Rob

PS I found them through a friend who lives in Austria and she was able to find them where my searches could not except for very questionable Chinese and Polish websites.

 

[Edward Sandaker Palm]

Hi Rob,
That is great news, congrats! I suppose a fully functioning "EasyUp" roof can be advertised as a rare and expensive option when time comes to sell, so unless you plan on keeping the van for eternity, new rams might ven be the best investment
If you find the time when replacing the rams, I would really appreciate a few words and some pictures in this thread. I think this thread and the one on the Cali forum has vecome quite the information resources for future potential converters

 

[RobRam]

Will do but for now the two cylinder part numbers are:
Q900001506274 - Right side (Euro 561.63)
Q900001506271 - Left side (Euro 659.84)
I will post where all the parts come from when I get that information from our friends in Austria.

 

[RobRam]

 

[RobRam]

Finally sourced the two new hydraulic rams. They are not readily available and ridiculously expensive but the camping roof has to be reliable. Went to camper show in Birmingham and although our campers are nearly 20 years old I don’t think there was one example offering the accommodation, storage and practicality our 2004 Marcopolo. We’ll be camping on the Spanish coast for Christmas! Good luck all.

 

[RobRam]

Finally!…. You will see the parts are made in Turkey? Perhaps one could source them more easily or even cheaper directly there.